Charlie Rose采访阳光媒体集团的董事长，中国著名英语主持人杨澜(2)

Host: How do you see a lot of Chinese that you know, your friends and colleagues view the United States today?
杨澜：仍然有规章制度、审批制度、令人失望的地方，这是肯定的。但我也看到进步，尤其是在互联网普及的情况下，互联网正成为人们对政策发表意见的重要渠道。好的坏的都包括。有不少滥用权力的例子在互联网上被曝光，公众的庞大力量促使政府更及时更透明地作出反应，并直接促使政府修改有关法规和政策，我想这是我们已经取得的进步。
主持人：那么人权状况呢？
杨澜：拿拘留犯人、服刑犯人来举例，互联网上会曝光那些遭受虐待的案例，事后相关人员被处分，会开展调查并重新修改相关法规。我想这是我们能看到的进步。当然，在一个大国，你每时每处都能见到很多问题在发生。我想现在最受关注的问题之一就是土地征用。人们担心土地因为城市发展被征用时能否得到合理赔偿。怎样算是合理的赔偿？有时候政府和居民有不同的看法。所以我们看到有很多冲突会发生。
主持人：你认识的很多中国人，你的朋友和同事，他们怎么看待今天的美国？
 
 
Yang Lan: Wow, that's a big question. I think people look up to the US as it is a free and open society. It's leading in education, in culture, in world politics and so on so forth. But I think many Chinese disagree on some of the international policies that the US government holds. Especially on Iraq wars and so on so forth. 
Host: But some agree on North Korea. US and China cooperate on some of …
Yang Lan: Yes, there is cooperation between US and China on a lot of fronts.
Host: How do you think China, I realize you do television programs and entrepreneur activities, and newspapers are not part of the government, how do you think China sees its role in the world over the next 25 years?
Yang Lan: Well, I think while China will take on more responsibilities in terms of free trade,
in terms of the environmental protection, it's not for the sake of the outside world. It's for our own people. We can't live on a polluted piece of land with our health threatened. Also I think from an internal perspective, we see more problems than outsiders can see. We see hundreds of millions of workers, who are migrant works, whose jobs are at stake, if the foreign currencies change a little bit. Because the margin for the manufacturing industry is very low.
Host: You are suggesting that China's resistance to appreciate the currency was in part because it would affect the wages of the workers in China?
杨澜：哇，这是个大问题。我想人们觉得美国是一个自由开放的社会。在教育、文化和世界政治等方面有领导地位。但我想很多中国人不同意美国政府在国际上推行的一些政策，尤其是在伊拉克战争等事宜上。
主持人：也有一些问题是有共识的，例如北朝鲜，中美在一些问题上有合作。
杨澜：是的，中美在很多方面有合作。
主持人：你怎样看中国，我知道你制作电视节目、开办企业和非政府报刊，但你怎样看中国在今后25 年在世界上扮演的角色？
杨澜：我想中国在自由贸易方面、环保方面担当更多责任的同时不仅是为全世界着想，也是为我们自己着想。我们不能在健康受威胁的土地上生存。从国内，我们能比外人看到更多问题，我们看到很多的民工只要外汇汇率动摇一点就会工作不保，因为制造业的利润非常低
主持人：你是不是想说中国抗拒货币升值的部分原因是不想影响工人的工资？
 
 
 
Yang Lan: Not just the wages, it's the security of jobs. It could affect millions or tens of millions of jobs. I am not arguing from the government point of view. I am just arguing as an insider, we see more internal challenges than outsiders can see.
Host: Americans make arguments the same way. In fact, you need to impose tariffs, because you need to protect the American workers.
Yang Lan: So I think it's a balance of both… How you protect jobs is an important problem for officials all over the world. 
Host: So how do you most hope China will grow? What's your own great ambition for the place where you had grown up and you have played such an important, in the sense of culture and media, role reflecting its changes.
Yang Lan: Well, for me, I think bridging China and the outside world is part of what I can do. Serving as the ambassador for Beijing Olympics and Shanghai Expo could be part of that. So that part includes explaining to the world what's going on inside China and what's going on outside China. It's interesting that my first show on television is about introducing the scenery, history, geography for my audience. Later on it's about people, personalities,  insights, perspectives to my audience, which is more in-depth, I hope. That's something I take great pride in. Another thing I want to do is to help to enhance the growth of civil society in China. The NPO, NGOs…
Host: By that you mean creating institutions…
杨澜：不仅是工资，是他们的生计。上千万工人的工作会因此受到影响。我并不是站在政府角度来争论这些问题，我只是作为局内人想说我们比外面的人会看到更多的挑战。
主持人：美国人也同样在争论。事实上人们会要求政府增加关税来保护美国工人。
杨澜：所以双方就需要平衡……对于所有国家的领导人，保护就业是重要问题。
主持人：你对中国发展的最大希望是什么？你对你见证你成长的这片土地有着怎样的理想？你已经在文化和媒介方面扮演了如此重要的角色，反映了中国的变迁。
杨澜：就我而言，成为中国和世界沟通的桥梁是我想做的事情之一。作为北京奥运和上海世博会大使就是个例子。这部分工作就包括了把中国发生的一切告诉世界，还有把在中国以外发生的事情告诉国人。很有趣的是，我在电视的第一个节目就是向观众介绍外国的景观、历史和地理。然后是介绍人民、人性、观点，是更有深度的内容。这是我引以为豪的事情。另外我想做的是帮助中国建设文明社会，民间公益组织等等……
主持人：你是说创建机构? 
 
 
Yang Lan: Well, the NPOs, NGOs… My foundation has been working with the leading educational institutions like Harvard University, Columbia University, Peking University, Tsinghua University, to offer workshops for the training of the top executives of NPOs in China. So I think that capacity building for the civil society will mean a lot in the future for our society.
Host: Finally, what brings you to New York? 
Yang Lan: Well, this time I was invited to attend a Fortune Magazine's most powerful women conference in Washington. And it's always sweet to come back to New York. I lived here for 3 years at Columbia. So visiting some of my old friends would mean a lot. And coming back to the city on a sunny day, have a feel for the central park and walk on Madison Avenue, 57th… Getting a feel of the city also means a lot of things to me. It's the city that I love, where I had my postgraduate study, I married, and my first child was born. So I have a personal and emotional attachment to the city itself.
Host: We are glad to see you.
Yang Lan: Thank you, Charlie
杨澜：是的，非盈利组织，非政府组织等。我的基金一直在和教育机构合作，比如哈佛大学，哥伦比亚大学，北京大学，清华大学，为培养非营利组织的高官提供课程。我认为这类的培训会对未来构建文明社会有很大帮助。
主持人：最后，请问是什么让你再次回到纽约？
杨澜：这次我是受邀参加在华盛顿举行的由财富杂志组织的全球最具权威女性大会,，而且每次回纽约都让人感觉甜蜜。我在哥大住了3年，所以来拜访一些老朋友会很有意义。在阳光明媚的一天来到纽约市感受一下中央公园，漫步在麦迪逊大道上，走到57街。体会这座城市的脉搏让我很有感觉。这是个我热爱的城市，我进修的地方，我结婚的地方，也是我第一个孩子出生的地方。所以我对这座城市有着深切的依恋。
主持人：很高兴看到你。
杨澜：谢谢，查理。